no respect for authority

[ferrell thomas]

My son is 15 yrs old. His behavior problems started in 5th grade. He was in "Gifted & Talented" until 6th grade. He then refused to be in those classes. Behavior problems progressively got worse. He is now doing 9th grade again. Last year he set the record for most office referrals. He was constantly having to be put into "In School Suspension". This just caused him to fall further behind in his classes. He never brought home any homework. He is argumentative with all his teachers. He says they do not respect him, therefore he will not respect them. The school did work with me & put him in a different school program called "Reach". It is for "At Risk Teens". They can work at their own pace & could graduate early. My son continued to go to school & fall asleep, do the same things that got him into trouble at the regurlar high school. He knows what is expected of him & just refuses to do what he is suppose to do. The last week of school he walked to school with another boy & smoked a joint on the way. He was confronted with the smell when he walked into the school. He admitted what he had done. The school police was called & a ticket was issued. He was kicked out of school (the last week of school). He is now behind & is starting the year out as a Freshman again. He also has to attend a school called "Truce". This is for the kids that are in constant trouble. Repeat suspensions, trouble with the law, etc. My son has to do 20 days. Today was his first day. I am just not seeing any improvement in his behavior & am dreading this school year. To my knowledge he has just started smoking pot this year. He says he hardly ever does it. His main interest is playing computer games. He does not help around the house at all. He just ignores all orders. He just has a horrible attitude. No motivation to be successful. He is an underachiever. With all that being said, he is really a very sweet person. He has a very good side. It is sad to see what he is becoming. He also has terrible rage. He has knocked holes in his bedroom walls. He will leave the house when he is grounded. It is a constant struggle with him.
When I enrolled him in the Truce school, they had a questionaire to fill out. I checked off enough negative things about my son that it recommened getting immediate help. I have told my son that I would like to put him in therapy. He says that he will not participate. I don't know if I should waste everybody's time if he is not willing to accept help.

[ohmomma]

wow... sure that's not our son you're describing there?? Smashing holes in the walls... running away... lying ... drug use... won't go to therapy... suspensions... sleeping, clowning around in class... all around defiance to authority. And then that sweet side, that potential! And our son ALSO was in the gifted program til 7th grade! Does your son also blame his problems on everyone else, and never takes responsibility for his actions?* Risk taking, impusivity??

Some months ago we put our son in a three week outpatient program, and that was an excellent intervention. I can really recommend it.

We were going to follow up with wilderness therapy, (you might want to research these programs but be careful and do your homework! It is only an intervention, giving you a chance to get in there to make serious change) We stopped short due to the improvements that happened, and the insane expense of these programs. We might still do this, however (if we can raise the money).

We also considered a program with police, called PINS (persons in need of supervision) but didn't go through with that either, yet. It puts another level of authority between you and your teen, and shows them you are dead serious. Also, if things really decline at school, we are considering boarding school, but it seems like the ultimate in tough love, and I want to be sure the other options don't work first. We will not give him much time before we act this time, however.

We put the cards on the table, and told him exactly what will happen.

Also, another really important thing was, that our son and his father became much closer, did things together, etc, and that was really really key in the improvement we got. He got the attention he craved. Don't give up! Oh, and we (finally) are putting up a united front as parents. This is so important, as the smart little bugger knows just how to manipulate us, and confuse us, and pit us against each other.

As the school year comes closer, and the pressure rises, problem behaviors are resurfacing. So, I think that for long-term change, patience is key, and serious, persistent change in the parenting. (see book) I don't really know what the next steps should entail, so I am curious as to Dr. Bradley's recommendations. Best of luck to you.

(*Our son's official diagnosis is ODD. Don't research it, it's too depressing, and few statistics and no outcome studies seem to be available. The therapist can only work as far as there is cooperation... of course our son won't cooperate. But get someone anyway, ASAP, to coordinate the care, and help YOU get to the bottom of the problems!!!) Maybe you have a school psychologist who can help!

[ferrell thomas]

Thank you for your reply. I have already done some reading on ODD. It nails my son. I have gotten referrals on 2 doctors that deal with this condition. My boyfriend & I have lived together for 7 yrs. I refuse to do the marriage thing again. Anyway, he does not think there is anything wrong with my son that stricker discipline would not fix. I disagree. Also, my son & his father are close. They just got back from a really nice vacation together. They took a plane from Texas to Colorado. Went mountain climbing in Colorado & then got on a train & went to California. Stayed in San Francisco 2 days & then drove to Yosimite. The trip ended a day early because of my son's bad attitude. He was not interested in any of the sites. Just wanted to get back home. He is happy just to play video games on the computer. He will go visit his one of his friends for a few hours. (Wonder why? Pot?)
I tried to get him accepted onto Cal Farley's Boys Ranch. They did not accept him. I was very honest with them on the phone interview. I wanted them to know exactly what they would be dealing with. I really thought this would be the answer for him. Get away from his mother & grow up a little. Find out what it is like without me to keep him out of trouble. The ranch did not feel like it would be a suitable situation.
This is day 3 of school & he has brought home perfect day reports so far. I am holding my breath. Hoping for a big miracle.
:confused:

[ohmomma]

Don't be lulled into thinking things will resolve themselves. If your son is indeed like ours, It's like they have no brakes... you catch them temporarily, but as soon as you let go they start rolling again... You really need to get him the help he needs, even if you have to force him there. (We had to call the police to stand by when we took our son... it seems humiliating, but I don't care what the neighbors think, my son needed help!)

Whatever happens with school, you need to make an intervention now, wake him up, get him to talk (group therapy might work better for him)... He might really not be a candidate for a place like boys ranch. Get referrals, talk to those 2 Dr's, right now. Talk to the school psychologist they can make excellent referrals, and get him tested. Find the source of his troubles and possibly underlying disorder(s).

Get your boyfriend to read Dr Bradley's book, so that you can both work as a team dealing with this. Pick your battles. My kid, perhaps yours too, isn't the type of learner that can sit in a classroom for 8 hours... he simply can't! It seems a recipe for disaster. For now, I am looking at all his interests, and his talents, and trying to develop alternatives that will allow him to be successful, even IF traditional school doesn't work out.

[KYSharon]

:( I have three children. I have been divorced from their father for seven years. I remarried 18 months ago. My oldest is in college. The two younger children ages 14 and 13 still live at home. I share joint physical custody with my ex-husband. The 14 year old chose to live with me full time. This has been for the past 6 months. The 13 year old stays with her father ½ of time and with me ½ of the time. This is weekly. My son is very introverted. His sister is very social. He is extremely smart. He takes all advanced classes and could very likely receive a full paid scholarship based on his grades alone. His sister isn’t as smart but she is very outgoing and very social. She has a lot of friends. He has a few. There interests are completely different. They are as different as black and white. My son who is fourteen has never given me problems before but within the past two months has become unruly. He would like to boss or control his 13-year-old sister. He seems to think his ideas on discipline are better than mine. He refers to his sister with slur comments, which I don’t condone and correct him for often. I have verbally warned him and this didn’t help. I resorted to grounding him but this doesn’t seem to be effective either. When things don’t go his way he becomes angry and destructive. He recently broke my storm door. This evening he got upset because his sister left on lights after going to bed. Something I felt was unworthy of addressing or should I say being grounded for or receiving harsh punishment. He called his sister a bitch and claimed she gets away with everything. I disciplined him for his language and grounded him. He became angry, saying he hated his family, we made his life miserable and commenced to throwing a fit and tearing things up. Before the night was over he had opened his window, kicked out the screen and proceeded to leave. This was about midnight. I gave him the opportunity to come back in the house but he refused saying he was leaving. I assumed he was walking to his father’s house but didn’t know this for sure and I don’t think it is safe for any child to be out walking the streets at midnight. His father lives approximately 5 blocks from me. I called the police and my son was picked up. After a lengthy conversation with the officer, he suggested I file a charge in juvenile court for my son being out of control. I’m not sure this is the correct route. Honestly every time the court system has been involved with anything it turned into a red tape mess. My agreement with my ex-husband has never been enforced. If I want to force the issue you have to go back through the court system. This requires not only money but also time off from work. It’s like an endless cycle. I don’t have any faith that the courts will help me in this situation either. I considered counseling. My ex-husband has the insurance coverage under his work plan but refuses to give me a copy of the insurance card. This was an issue addressed in our last agreement but to date he hasn’t complied with providing me with a card. I did find out the name of the insurance and thought I could call to get a referral. I was told even though I am the mother of the children because of HIPPA laws the insurance can’t provide me with any information. So I am at the mercy of my ex-husband. I took the children to counseling after the divorce. I don’t feel it was effective but it gave them an out. I feel stuck. Obviously grounding isn’t the answer. Verbally warning isn’t the answer. What is the answer? How to you effectively discipline? I have tried to talk with him privately about his language, slurs and anger. I have asked him why he hates his life and feels miserable around his family. He has never given me a real answer. Is this normal behavior for a 15 year old? I never went through this with my oldest child. I fell I am out the end of my rope with him. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.